Matt,<div><br></div><div>If you are not working with Chris Whiteley, creator of openZIS, you should check it out: <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; color: rgb(119, 119, 119); -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; "><a href="mailto:education-wg@opensourceforamerica.org">education-wg@opensourceforamerica.org</a> He has an open source SIF solution well developed and has done integration work now with commercial vendors, MA DOE and some UK agencies. I highly recommend him. Thanks</span></div> <div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#777777" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px;"><br> </span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#777777" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px;">Casey Adams</span></font></div> <div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#777777" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px;">Founder, OS4Ed<br> </span></font><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 4:17 AM, Matt Burkhardt <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mlb@imparisystems.com">mlb@imparisystems.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"> <div><div class="im"> On Thu, 2010-04-08 at 14:19 -0400, Kevin Cole wrote: <blockquote type="CITE"> <pre>I hope my *very* humble comments can help shape the message... On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 13:51, Mike <<a href="mailto:mhuffman@comcast.net" target="_blank">mhuffman@comcast.net</a>> wrote: > How do we invest in open source? > > Identify some funding that can be used for projects in K-12 schools that > rely on open source software. This is clearly this first step to making > anything significant happen. This is also a good way to develop some working > models. Perhaps various models should be explored. One model would include > full open source from operating system forward. Another model might consider > open-source products on proprietary OS's. We need to get to the point that > we can take schools where they are and help them to move forward. It is > unrealistic to think that schools will discard all products currently in use > and move to new, different products. When schools decide to transition from Apple to Microsoft or vice versa, how do they migrate? Also, my thinking about "investing" includes student involvement: Since many schools have community service requirements and internship opportunities, look for students who are bright and curious to help. They will require some management from either educators or professionals (or both) but if there's either financial gain or prestige / recognition to be gained, forming those kinds of partnerships are a real investment. </pre> </blockquote></div> I think there's also the idea of developing new software. For example, I'm currently working with a co-op of charter schools to add functionality to two current open source packages called SchoolTool and CanDo using an I3 grant. Hopefully we'll end up with the money, but the bigger picture is that this new functionality will be able to be used by any other school. FYI, it's to add SIF compliance, XML import and export capabilities and better reporting. <div class="im"><blockquote type="CITE"> <pre>> How do we determine if open source software is effective? > > In my opinion this is the wrong question. Do we ask “is Microsoft software > effective?” “Is Apple software effective?” No. We tend to look at > achievement levels after students have used various types of software. Our > experience in Indiana showed little difference between proprietary software > and open-source software. (Although we ran out of time to fully document > this information before the program was substantially changed.) And the question is too "Effective how?" (or "Effective at what?") If all you're measuring is "can a spreadsheet add numbers" or "does the geography drill give the right answers" then, a lot of solutions will work, proprietary or otherwise. If, on the other hand, people are able to tap the talent to redesign and redistribute, it's the potential for innovation and customization which makes it exciting. (On a more mundane level, one could look at total cost of ownership, including licensing, number of programmer / sysadmin hours per person per computer, anti-virus costs, etc. But I'm not really any good with those kinds of numbers.) </pre> </blockquote></div> I agree and can't add anything substantial to these responses. <div class="im"><blockquote type="CITE"> <pre>> The biggest challenge is ACCESS. We found that the average high school > student averaged 30-45 minutes per WEEK using technology in schools. At > that usage level it would be hard to determine if brushing teeth was > effective, let alone the more difficult issue of technology. > > Perhaps the question should be, how do we determine if technology is > effective? How do we gauge the effectiveness of software compared to its > price? Would we be better off taking the money we spend for software and > hardware and putting it into additional personnel? Should we look at the > types of software that we are using? The fact that a school project has > technology does not necessarily mean that it is successful or desirable. </pre> </blockquote></div> I think the TCO argument is best used here. <div class="im"><blockquote type="CITE"> <pre>> > Is the model sustainable? > > This is a difficult one on several levels. I am hoping that her main concern > is sustaining the model that is established for K-12 schools. The ultimate > model should consider everything: hardware costs, software costs, > professional development costs, and implementation practice. I am not > certain that we are looking at these things now as we implement systems in > schools. Although it is a good idea and we should be doing this, the > question needs to be be more broadly applied to technology used throughout > K-12 education. Sustainable? Is anything "sustainable" in the 21st century, where products are obsolete before they're released? I would say open source is "migratable" especially if you're stressing open standards for data. I love Linux, but keep my eye on other open-source OS's out there and haven't sworn fealty to Emperor Tux forever, nor even to his relatives of the *nix family. It's hard to build that kind of dynamic flexibility into big organizations, but I think it's KEY for education to make a valiant effort to do so. </pre> </blockquote></div> If she's starting from zero on the open source business model, you need to help her consider some of the business successes. Red Hat just posted one of their strongest quarters, same with Alfresco and several others. Mention that Google, Amazon, Facebook and other well known social sites run on open source software. It might be good to talk about MySQL being purchased for lots of money by Oracle. <br> <br> In addition, I think the idea of service capabilities should be discussed. There is an open source service business in every state of the union, and if schools started switching over, there's enough knowledge around to help start up small businesses.<br> <br> My two cents and thanks,<br> <br> <br> <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td> <br> Matt Burkhardt<br> Impari Systems, Inc.<br> <br> <a href="mailto:mlb@imparisystems.com" target="_blank">mlb@imparisystems.com</a><br> <a href="http://www.imparisystems.com" target="_blank">http://www.imparisystems.com</a> <br> <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/mlburkhardt" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/in/mlburkhardt</a> <br> <a href="http://www.twitter.com/matthewboh" target="_blank">http://www.twitter.com/matthewboh</a><br> 502 Fairview Avenue<br> Frederick, MD 21701<br> work (301) 682-7901<br> cell (301) 802-3235<br> <br> <br> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </div> <br>_______________________________________________<br> education-wg mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:education-wg@opensourceforamerica.org">education-wg@opensourceforamerica.org</a><br> <a href="http://opensourceforamerica.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/education-wg" target="_blank">http://opensourceforamerica.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/education-wg</a><br> <br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Casey Adams<br>Phone: 678.221.4602<br>Fax: 717.326.3543.<br><br><br> </div>